But here you go. I certainly wouldn't rely on it for back up proving Linda to be dodgy. It is time for the oppressed minorities and especially the black man to throw off the continued vestiges of slavery and seize what is rightfully theirs- take back the fruits of their 200 years of slave labor. He ignores the good objection and focuses on the compound objection. Like the silly hitchhiking story about Wilson, I now wonder if her account of meeting with the Spahn circle wasn't another white wash. St Circumstance saidThe "They had really bad backgrounds and nowhere else to turn" sympathy is appropriate in cases like.It's paradoxical. Oh and I don't think the events are clear long before Jay Sebring is shot. I meant that they claim to know the "Real motive" My apologies George. Pat too- and their stories are all the same after all these years.I ask myself these things when telling myself it cant be H/S because everyone in TLB land says so.. St Circumstance saidGeorge and Schreck have spoken to all the people around the killersAnd yet are no more agreed on the motive. The young couple moved west last New Year's. A daughter, Tanya, is living with relatives in New Hampshire. Manson Mythos saidHere is a fact: Krenwinkel never said the motive was Helter SkelterShe definitely believed in it though. The two traveled the country, enjoying the hippie lifestyle from commune to commune. But now and again one does sort of let something out that is interesting. Not only that, they all happened to be dramatic and under the surfaces lurks alternative and more reasonable possibilities.For example: Bugliosi had a problem. This marriage too did not prove to be stable and Linda Kasabian returned to stay with her mother in New Hampshire. Just the ones with that certain type of character. How many of us became murderers or aided and abetted murder? She was the angel in a group of murderous devilsWhen it came to killing, she was, different. Those who became 18 before 1980. ?I do not get it at all.. there is a human side to this and there are a couple of people to pity who got involved with Charlie. Grim, I read Col Scott's piece when putting this together because I found something that led me there- might have been googling Fleischman. Dreath saidWhen you get to the heart of it, it is Bugliosi who says the motive was HS (+ megalomania+ anti-social hatred of the establishment+ lust for murderIt starts as being the other way around, HS being last on the list. Linda Darlene Kasabian was born on June 21, 1949. Parent.2. He reinforced it was alright to act on the dangerous impulses this particular assortment of people had. She admits to stabbing Rosemary in it mate ! Better yet how about asking Dr. Galloway? Not so much today. I guess what I am saying is that people like Linda - and yes, even Tex - may be victims of their own bad wiring, NOT to the point of excusing what they have donebut certainly warranting more thought than just slapping the bad or evil tag on them. Linda Kasabian is a former member of the Manson family, a desert commune led by the infamous cult leader Charles Manson. A month before he was even on the case, the police had Charles Manson down as a suspect and things were unravelling.Not only that, they all happened to be dramatic and under the surfaces lurks alternative and more reasonable possibilitiesAll happened to be dramatic ? Linda least of all- the only price she paid at all was karma. Let's save our sympathies only for those He deems good. That gives it more weight than retrospective opinions which sometimes is a good thing, but sometimes is not as in what LVH was ultimately charged with. There were a number of details like this that came out, even worse ones during the Watson trial. On August 8, 1969, Linda was selected to drive the killers to the Tate residence because she had the only valid driver's license. I would have testified without a deal" translates when the evidence is revealed to 'I'm not talking even if the sky falls (but I will for immunity)". Granted, not everyone becomes a murderer because of a rough passage in a part of one's life, but to be honest, that's no argument, because some do.But this isn't an appeal to feel sorry for anyone, just an observation that life contains nuances that are neither easy to explain nor simple to dismiss. Saint said: The real Losers in the entire saga are the victims and their families. I don't know anyone who defends the victims who thinks she is any kind of a heroBut again. But what happened before and after that. No one else remembers when Frykowski was shot but Tex says he did it on the porch. Sgt. Perhaps he even was trying to remind her about the importance of midnight, we'll never know. Don't get me wrong I do not believe any of these crazies actually had thought processes like that. But again, while Susan was playing ball, Linda was surplus to requirements.and helping her knock Atkins out of the boxThat's the part I really don't believe. The question is leading, hes suggesting the answer in his question. He admits things now but this is not "incarceration '69/70. Pat didn't know {she's said that several times} and as far back as '69, even before the Grand jury, Susan said in an interview with Richard Caballero, "We were instructed to go to this particular house. Both have different conclusions.I don't know what you get from that but I know what I get from that. The point is not why Sharon didn't run. Now DailyMail.com can exclusively disclose that Linda Kasabian, 68, is living in a modest apartment complex in Tacoma, Washington, not far from the home of her daughter Quanu, 45. That just may be Linda's story in a nutshell. After her sophomore year she dropped out to marry Robert Moses Peaslee. The couple had a daughter named Tanya who was born in 1968. Groups like the Revolutionary Youth Movement- Weather Underground and precursors to the SLA like those in the Revolutionary Union who support the strategy of urban warfare espoused by people like H Bruce Franklin and the leadership of Venceramos (sp?) She had an intriguing last name for someone in a true crime story. She had four children. Her testimony eventually led to the convictions of Manson, Watson, Atkins, Krenwinkel, and Van Houten. I gotta disagree with you on that one. You are correct. St Circumstance saidBut not Linda. Linda gave birth to a daughter Tanya in 1968. ]MR.KANAREK: He is arguing with the witness, your Honor. Your Resource for the Tate-LaBianca (TLB) MurdersYesterday :: Today :: Tomorrow :: Where No Sense Makes Sense. But I'll say no more and wait for the film to be released.Also, if you believe what is written in the Guinn book, while she didn't say Kasabian engaged in any violent acts, she claims she didn't do any of what she said on the stand. It certainly wasn't even a consideration when she gives her own point of view on why she recanted.All 5 Tate/LaBianca killers, when apart from Charlie told others he'd orchestrated the murders. You are certainly entitled to that because we can't read her mind. Mr. Kasabian had abandoned her and their child in Los Angeles while he went off to South America. Kasabian saw it as an opportunity to flee the ranch (without Tanya). I don't remember did she show a license or maybe she didn't even have one to show? Linda married again, this time to a hippie named Robert Kasabian. The ones who actually did it and had to pay for it all say the same thing. ?This is a girl who started breaking laws at a very young age. Dreath saidAt what price, my friend? I wonder if he and Fleischmann were on friendly terms.. Saint, If you are referring to that post above, I think that is entirely consistent with HS. From there, Linda and Tanya flew back to New Mexico, only to hitchhike all the way to her father's home in Florida, and finally back to her mother in New Hampshire. One either believes it or one doesn't. That means a lot. So what's your point ? The short youtube is anecdotal but a number of photos show troops of the 7th Cav in the battle of I-Drang valley. Her parents separated while she was still young with Rosaire remarrying and moving to Miami, Florida. BUT Bugliosi said she (only she oddly) thought it was a creepy crawl mission. Do I give weight to what anyone says after they were convicted: Not much. I ended up running away at 18 and skipped the country. She has been portrayed a number of times in films. That matters to me, They have a need for HS to be wrong. The reasons why she did so make for an interesting set of discussions but are essentially secondary to me.I use positive phrases for all kinds of people that have done awful things because there is no such a thing as someone totally bad or totally good. Not only that, she said she had to go get it from Squeaky and Charlie, if it were not true, would he have remained quiet about it ? Furthermore, Charlie sent her back the next day so he couldn't have been too bothered about it.Considering over a little more than three months prior to the murders she didn't have a valid one, I WOULD SAY she didn'tOf course you would !I could be wrongBut you'd never admit it if you were.That's why she denied any knowledge of the LaBianca murders, but accidentally slipped up and supplied information helpful with TateYou surely cannot be speaking about the tape recording Leslie did with Marvin Part.Denied any knowledge of the LaBianca murders ? Not even in her Grand Jury testimony did Atkins say anythingAtkins was never pushed on it. Only the main core of 20 to 30 stayed consistently. Kasabian Thought for the Day: If Watson is attacking Voytek.."And while this was going on, the man had gotten up, and I saw Tex on top of him, hitting him on the head and stabbing him, and the man was struggling,"And Krenwinkel is chasing Abigail"then I saw Katie in the background with the girl, chasing after her with an upraised knife,"And this is was happening thirty feet outside the door.. "And then Sadie came running out of the house, and I said, "Sadie, please make it stop." The "They had really bad backgrounds and nowhere else to turn" sympathy is appropriate in cases like Diane Lake and Ruth. very young, and not absent- but actually encouraging and contributing to the delinquency of their kids type of parents.But not Linda. It is time to bring the world-wide struggle- the war, back to the US to raise up the black man and bring down capitalism. So to me even if there is more to the story- the actual motive = the actual reason they went over and killed. Manson himself went inside and tied the victims and then left along with her and few others instructing the rest of the family members to kill them. I think it gives some fairly revealing insights into Kasabian's personality (disorder?) I am in the class of 1965 picture as a matter of fact. Dont know about license but she did live in nadhia likre you said my mother cashed her welfare checks back in the 70s.She was shocked to see her. The failed policies of passive resistance, marching and speeches must give way to the use of violence to bring about social change because the pigs are using violence against us. There is no online registration for the intro class Terms of usage & Conditions It has positive aspects but often, is anything but.Linda is one person people on both sides can agree was no good personally.I wouldn't say that about anybody. Combat deaths were over represented by those white troops from the southern states. Her marriage later fell apart. Also, the defence lawyer attempted to discredit her testimony by calling her a drug addict, a psychopath, a liar and even the mastermind of all the murders that took place. Susan's deal was that nothing she said could be used against any of her co~defendants and there was no evidence that Linda had been along on either night.Atkins claimed that the prosecution steered her into recanting but it was she who kept insisting on seeing Charlie, after which, she recanted.One wonders how he would have spun Sadie if he needed her instead of turning this obvious piece of trash into a little angel? (Inaudible) me screaming. Don't post that when I'm taking a drink of beer. Now is the time + (2.) Do you hate everyone who was of draft age during the Vietnam era. PS: according to her cross examination at the Watson trial she was also arrested in Haight-Ashbury in 1967. I believe she was not and the same applies on my end. Same with Shea. With her marriage falling apart, she decided to move in with the family on their dilapidated Spahn's Ranch. It was at night and I had no knowledge of what was happening until we actually got there." I think what might have happened with Atkins instead of Kasabian is you might not be talking as much about Helter Skelter as a motive. They had a second child together, and Robert Kasabian left for South America. That is o.k. The getaway driver that Tex laid into for starting the car, whom he didn't let drive.Linda doesn't sound so willing, really. The trial was covered extensively by the media and after it ended, she returned to New Hampshire to be with her husband and children in peace and away from media attention. Believe it or not the closest I think I could get would be Atkins because IF you believe Kasabian she didn't kill anyone. Neither Susan nor Linda were major league contributors to HS in the grand scheme of things.I guess we'll never know, but there are many people wondering how different things would have been had Pat never daubed "Healter Skelter" on the LaBianca's fridge.There are several occasions where he brings out testimony he doesn't need for a conviction just to make her look goodThere are more than several occasions when Kanarek brings out testimony he doesn't really need just to make her look bad. "We'd got the indictments. Matt, thanks so much for the warm welcome back :). Man, that got ugly in a hurry. One gunshot would have sufficed. MY double talk is meant to show there are, at least, two sides to every person's STORY (especially Linda's) AND I don't hate ANYONE, except maybe MYSELF. I try not to view life in a binary way. Granted, Dean Moorehouse was the kind of Dad that I'd like to jail for a very long time, notwithstanding acid blitzing his being, but it would appear that Ruth had some things going on within her that weren't vastly different to Linda. Why ?Lo' and be hold, Bugliosi had a perfect scenario to answer this very important questionYou make it sound like he made it up ! My usage of it is very much in the biblical sense. Dreath saidyou have a tendency to 'move the goal posts' which makes responding to you rather difficultIf by that you mean that I seem to jump around on the subjects and quotes I'll comment on, that's true. Hey, there are some similarities to Manson. She need only repeat his words. In August 1969, she was instructed by Charles Manson to carry a knife, a change of clothing, and her drivers license and drive the family members Charles Tex Watson, Susan Atkins, and Patricia Krenwinkel to 10050 Cielo Drive, the residence of famous director Roman Polanski and his eight-months-pregnant wife, Sharon Tate. Some folk are just simply born under a bad sign, cursed with to much anger, desperation and bad judgement in their DNA. But always focusing on credibility and reliability of a witness can lead to an assumption that if they aren't reliable, that they aren't telling the truth or if they can be shown to be not credible, that whatever they say shouldn't really be entertained. After talking to a social worker, Linda returned to Los Angeles and eventually got her daughter back. Those failed strategies are ineffective in bringing about change. ]MR.KANAREK: Compound, your Honor, leading and suggestive. Robert Hendrickson saidDreath has a good point - a "good" DA could have gotten THEM all with a "robbery" charge. There aren't many theories though. But Bugliosi's write up of it makes it sound like a sensational groundbreaking moment that was obvious to all.I was made to live in Nigeria at the age of 14 without being informed {I was on holiday}. Everyone can form their own about Linda. Another interesting point: Kasabian never said the motive was Helter Skelter. So I suspect that IF the TATE / LaBianca massacre took place today, they would be filling the ambulances with cops who got nauseated and pass-out. Dreath saidI don't believe she told the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truthThat could depend on what you suspect to be "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. One or the otherA young Sprite George Stimson and Sandy sit inches away from Bugs and Patti Tate and they all have a pretty good go at it as far as motive and other things :). It is usually something unrelated to what they are being asked like Krenwinkels Sharon wasnt supposed to be there comment I read about somewhere. I think goofy's comments about 'being at war' and 'casualties of war' are interesting. But neither emerged in a vacuum. ?Most definitely.Both were at different stages and had come through different experiences.However.there were also some similarities. Bugliosi did say that he had planned to question Susan later so who knows, it may have come up. But she testified against great danger. Her testimony eventually led to their conviction. "The ONLY reason we're all confused is because "Healter Skelter" and "Death to Pigs" were written in blood at the LaBianca crime scene. Sort of a before and after. Reading through the court transcripts, what is often presented in HS as a dramatic moment is actually quite tame. But Pat's "Rise" and "Death to pigs" is arguably the Family's calling card and one of the main pointers to Charlie. A British rock band is named after her too. ?Leslie & Tex are the only ones that have stated that categorically and have remained with it. More languages Robert Hendrickson posted: AND now look at Donald Trump's legal "draft dodging" exploits and how THEY are going to lead to the EXPOSURE of many notable "closet cowards" amongst our sacred "establishment." If Kasabian was what you are implying here, Nader would be dead and with Clem and Sadie as accomplices, no one would be any the wiser. Low level of intelligence: thinking a socialist was going to turn the United States into an idealist utopia where college was free, black people got reparations and Marijuana grew wild for all to partake. In a 2009 docu-drama by Cineflex, she elaborated her story for the first time in detail. Did YOU ever THINK "What was HE doing up there?" IF I was one of the defense attorneys, I would have asked Linda and most other Prosecution witnesses:1) I'm a little confused and maybe you can help us ALL understand this Helter Skelter business a little better. Linda's daughter, aka "Lady Dangerous" was arrested for possession of a controlled substance (both rock and powder cocaine), and was sentenced to a year in state prison. How do you know it would have been a black service member? Also Known As: Linda Darlene Kasabian, Linda Darlene Drouin, Spouse/Ex-: Robert Peasley (m. 1965 div.. 1966). After they are convicted they need to embrace the official narrative or they don't get out. Q (by Bugliosi). At the front door, she ran into a stabbed and beaten Wojciech Frykowski. I agree with your comment about multiple angles. It just raises for me the specter that if there was more planning .by whom? Bobby about mescaline deals and Danny DeCarlo, Pat about not carving WAR on Leno or instructing Leslie to wipe prints {she told the '78 hearing panel there were "15 or 16" things that she would like to correct that Steven Kay got wrong}, Susan about not stabbing Sharon, Leslie about being coerced to "do something," Bruce about the involvement of Tex, Bill Vance & Larry Jones in Shorty's murder and Tex about Susan not stabbing Tate, carving WAR and making Leslie stab Rosemary when she had chickened out ~ none of these things are part of the official record and are not taken on board as being so but the prisoners continue[d] to follow those lines.I'm of the opinion that some of what you get from people who are willing to spill the beans after conviction have to be taken on board if one is going to attempt to understand these people in the aftermath of that point they were at when they committed their crimes. I did not mean to offend and apoligise if I did.You said: Do you mean by the jury ?Do you feel Judge Older was somewhat derelict in his duty by letting so many leading questions go through ?You know I swore I wasnt going to do this. But that wasn't what that was about.It isn't so much a case of lying about witness as much as emphasizing anything positive you can find lurking in the scum. St Circumstance saidThat's the point lol. At the very least, he was an accessory before the fact in that particular crime. More weight does not necessarily make it right or definitive.That said, quoting various bods is more for the interest of seeing exactly what they did say about certain of the incidents/matters we're all discussing and sometimes providing illumination.If Watson is attacking Voytek..And Krenwinkel is chasing AbigailAnd then Sadie came running out of the house, Who was watching Sharon Tate?No one. At the start of the trial he said "In this trial, we will offer evidence of Charles Manson's motives for ordering these seven murders. Its been awhile but I think I recall she said she took his wallet. However, if there's one thing I've picked up from Helter Skeptics that I find really valuable, it's to approach this case from a number of different angles, especially angles that are not the standard ones we've been given. Catch 22s abound.If Linda did in fact have a valid driver's license there is no reason why it would be rejected when she went to see Bobby Beausoleil. So it's not as though there isn't some kind of precedent for stuff being revealed after the fact. Thanks for contributing to the blog.That May 1969 article where Linda had her license suspended is interesting. It doesn't make sense to suppose that they're all independently connected just because you don't want to accept the overall result and certain aspects that led to that result. Lynn,I love a story with a good narrator and Bill's voice is excellent for what he does. "It was so quiet, one of the killers would later say, that you could almost hear the sound of ice rattling in the cocktail shakers in the homes way down the canyon.". When he meets up with or has contact with Pat, she waives extradition, even though she's told Claude Brown she's scared of Manson finding & killing her. She's not the reason why some black males are serving life for Marijuana. The price for everyone else was horrific. The next night, she again drove the family including the previous night members as well as Charles Manson, Leslie Van Houten and Steve Grogan to the house of Leno and Rosemary LaBianca, rich owners of a grocery store chain. But you know, there may well be someone in this world that could say the same about any one of us. Dreath saidDo I give weight to what anyone says after they were convicted: Not much. When Charlie meets with Susan, even though she's plumbed him firmly in it with confessions, articles, interviews,a book and a grand jury starring role, she recants and ends up granting herself a one way ticket to oblivion.Coincidence ?Tex and Linda, on the other hand, don't see or have contact with Charlie and stick with their stories {even though we know Tex's is bullshit, some of Linda's is corroborated by Joe Sage}.Coincidence ?Fits her personality (disorder? Nothing new. Before goofball goes off on Hollywood did I hear her initially say 'she shouldn't have been there'? Saint, no apology is necessary. And then there are universal "changes" in "perceptions" that take place over extended time. His closing argument, like the closing argument of any attorney, is just that 'argument'. I try to do that. If Fleischmann actually did come up with that plan to knock Atkins out of the last seat in the life boat it was brilliant. The twenty-year-old girl was arrested in New Hampshire yesterday on a fugitive warrant for Los Angeles police who want to question her in connection with the murder of . Bruce, Tex, Leslie, Susan, Pat, Clem and Bobby all in one way or another made something of their lives without imploding. Yes, if you stop at the Grand Jury he has no case against Kasabian as it's inadmissible and/or it was all he had. She stole money from her friends to impress people she knew for days. Dreath saidProbably move the goal posts was not the best turn of a phrase. Like any human story, it's the fusion of darkness and light and all those paradoxes and nuances that have kept it so gripping for so long. The DA's office had to get old charges from Inyo refiled to keep Charlie inside. Later, Robert Kasabian contacted Linda and invited her to meet him in Los Angeles. She was the angel in a group of murderous devils. These weren't and aren't good people. This post piqued my interest.have not really commented in the past few years but Dreath, great investigative work. That is a silly discussion. Her most interesting revelation on it came actually during the Watson trial, when HS is not emphasized the way it was in the TLB trial. When he then asks "do you mean 3 a.m. or midnight" he's leading the witness. She was the chief witness at the prosecution of Manson and his followers for the Tate LaBianca murders. But kids were revered in the Family which made Tonya safer. Anniversary thoughts- Leary7 said it best. And nothing she said could ever be used against her co~defendants.and Leslie lined up right behind her to do the same by puttin' on the crazy brainwashed actYou frequently say this even though it is frequently pointed out to you that this simply isn't the case and demonstrably so. As we all know Linda Kasabian was born Linda Darlene Drouin on June 21, 1949. I can still see Bill Nelson (Molesto)'s banner headline when he did the Lady Dangerous report. I embarrass myself when I insult anyone let along groups of people. It's been done about Tex, Larry Jones & Bill Vance in regards to Shorty. RH: Maybe like this?1. St Circumstance saidThey have a need for HS to be wrong. March 1970 to Linda Kasabian, father unknown. Overlooking the fact that Atkins sold him out pretty fast and Leslie lined up right behind her to do the same by puttin' on the crazy brainwashed act with Marvin Partwhich Tex actually did to, although failed.We also overlook the fact both Manson and the girls could have easily attempted to put the entire thing on Tex Watson. But NOW, "drunkenness" is considered to be the by-product of a DISEASE. Susan Denise Atkins aka Sadie Mae Glutz is a former member of the Charles Manson "Family". Back in the day drunkenness and mentally altering ones mind with drugs was considered BAD, because only losers did that. She chose to be the way she wasBut not in a vacuum. This marriage too did not prove to be stable and Linda Kasabian returned to stay with her mother in New Hampshire. How about asking Mr. Peaslee why he wanted a divorce based on her endangering his mental or physical health. But not every brain is wired the same - our neurotransmitters are just ridiculously different in everyone. Great stuff, Dreath! She told Richard Caballero that on LaBianca night, there were to be 2 death squads. As soon as Atkins testifies Bugliosi has a pretty good case against Kasabian. Later, in an effort to give their marriage another chance, she joined Robert Kasabian in Hippie Hangouts of Topanga Canyon, Los Angeles, California where he was friends with Charles Blackbeard Melton. It's kind of passed into folklore that that is the reason but no reason has ever been actually given. Her testimony was considered to be the most dramatic segment of the very long trial, and it received an unprecedented amount of news media coverage. Yes. So did Hitler. If Manson was the God to these people and everyone else was disposable. I am unclear what you mean by the 'got in Parent's car' issue. And if robbery or burglary had been the motive, there wouldn't have been any need to print the words in the victims' blood at the scene of both residences. I'm not even convinced 100% she was ever standing on that sidewalk nor am I convinced she wasn't inside the house (yes, I see the inconsistency). When Larry King asked her if at any point she asked Manson why are we doing this and why are these people being killed, she was at a total loss for words until Bugliosi spoke up and answered for her. And more than any other witness, Linda Kasabian's testimony helped convict Charles "Tex" Watson, Susan Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel, Leslie Van Houten, and Charles Manson. It should also lead us directly to Charles Manson (a loving father to HIS Family and a Natural Born KILLER to many others.Like no other time in History, WE are discovering new facts concerning just what makes the Human Brain tick and hopefully it won't be much longer until WE finally understand exactly why human beings do the "terrible" things THEY do.AND of course, that understanding will eventually lead to a sense of awareness in humans paralleled in all of history. and the reward]A. I cannot say a definite time because, as I said before, I had no concept of time when I was there. And even during that phase, they tried to paint her as the mastermind, but no one even attempted to say she killed anyone. I do feel in those cases- had they gone along those nights I would still put them away- but I could get the understanding after all these years of why people would feel bad for them.By the way ever see what Ruth ended up looking like as an adult? I see the physical evidence not lining up with her testimony, her line of sight doesn't seem to allow her to see everything she has mentioned (I'm working on that one), several of her statements 'just don't make no sense' and many were brought out by leading questions. No screaming for it to stop, etc. He wasn't even charged with shooting Lotsapoppa, but we all know it happened..The question: what if she was ASKED?She wasn't asked, she was told. Its Ok to see things differently Grim.You make alot of eloquent points bud. In a sense, Helter Skelter and Susan Atkins developed as parallel lines during the investigation. In late June of 1969, she attempted a reconciliation with. What if she wouldn't have testified? She chose to be the way she wasAround the age of 14, I chose to be the way I am and have been doing so ever since. Charles Manson was in complete control of the ranch and its people and instructed everyone on what to do. When her second marriage, to Armenian American Robert Kasabian, began to sour, Kasabian and her baby daughter, Tanya, returned to New Hampshire to live with Linda's mother. I gotta say I lean to the Saint here. As soon as Atkins testifies Bugliosi has a pretty good case against Kasabian. Those people would of gone unpunished, and were very capable of murdering again, especially Watson. After that it is Bugliosi, not Kasabian who is testifying. Leslie told Marvin Part there were to be 2 death squads. Leslie Van Houten, 19, pleaded innocent to the murder of Mr. and Mrs. Leno LaBianca. And let's take it a step further - let's only have sympathy for the good looking, and also for those making 100K.Saint, my ass. At one point he actually criticizes one of the defence lawyers for calling a witness without having spoken to them.I thought all lawyers know what they want those that matter to hear ! That is exactly what Leslie Van Houton was charged and CONVICTED forYeah, despite Bugliosi saying in his closer:"One thing is abundantly clear. Grim, Probably move the goal posts was not the best turn of a phrase. But still, nobody is going to argue if you apply terms like bad and evil to Tex. It was dark for 4 or 5 hours, after it had been dark.Q. He said something to the effect that Charlie had a very strong case and that there was pretty much no evidence against him. He was a talented musician and her initial days at the ranch were filled with LSD, music, stories, dancing around and orgies. It can't be HS because that makes Charlie responsible. In 1996, along with her daughter, she was arrested for drugs and gun possession. And IF a soldier goes out NOW and shoots-up the town, it's likely because HE has PTSD.I recently heard that the police chief of a major city was going to bring in "grief" counselers to treat his officers for mental "trama," because some of THEIR buddies were KILLED in a shoot-out with a crazy guy. yeah, let's all comply with Saint. Defence ? Testifying before the jury that it was all them and Charlie had nothing to do with it isn't exactly the best way to demonstrate the prosecutor was wrong. :-), "When they go low- I get high"or something like that lol. In his closing argument, he uttered some very telling words, namely; "The motives that the co~defendants, the actual killers, had, on the other hand, was a very simple motive. people who assert their opinions as biblical truths.I am not picking on him, but just by way of example, Saint said."The real Losers in this entire sage are the victims and their families".First of all, no offense but that is a "duh" statement to the point of being a cliche.Second, it is said that you can't compare pain any more than you can compare love. So you are relying on two witnesses that are diametrically opposed as to this event. Hearing screams, she ran towards the house and witnessed the killing of Wojciech Frykowski by Watson. It must be time for a break. The other day you were hating on people who never killed one single communist or burned one village, because they used their draft deferrments to wait out the war. You can barely hear the dialogue and the transcript is full of "(Unintelligible)" and there are things she actually says that are not written in the transcript. The penalty phase is, according to Charlie {in his "arresting Bobby wrongly" statement at trial}, Steve Grogan {his testimony} and Susan Atkins {"The myth of HS"} what the defence would have been.Overlooking the fact that Atkins sold him out pretty fastShe initially told her cell mates of her involvement in TLB and Charlie's leadership never envisioning they'd tell the authorities. Excellent work by Dreath here. But it's still 'spin'. The recent revelation of the close proximity of the apartment where Saladin Nader allegedly lived and the HQ of the Straight Satans is something that cannot be dismissed as pure Coincidence.When one looks at this case, it's almost miraculous that Vincent Bugliosi had a scenario that answered so many important questions and that the answers all seemed to help his case greatly. On a different note: RH- nice post. Bob Kasabian wanted to go and storm the castle gates to retrieve Tonya but that would have resulted in danger for all 3 Kasabians. Fits her personality (disorder?). Many people came into the family and many left. The Clinton supporter saying people blindly follower a liarLOL.Despite her being responsible for mass destruction and chaos over seas, the death of thousands, creation of a monstrous terrorist organization and lying to the American people and blaming Trump for a rise in animosity towards the west and not her own war crimes.Try looking beyond the headlines and surface and try to use that brain. That's 3 times in a week. They had a second child together, and Robert Kasabian left for South America. Besides, counsellor, J. Edgar Hoover head your the FBI agrees with me. 3. Now that is a great question and I decline to answer on grounds I might further incriminate myself. In my opinion then and only then does the 'immunity' award begin to raise doubts in the minds of the jurors regarding her credibility. Sandy Good said that on a talk show she was on with George and Patti and I think Bugs might have been there too.Thanks though. You know, had she said those things during her first trial and got death, then the death penalty was overturned as it was, she'd possibly be out now. On the following day, Linda Kasabian once again drove a carload of killers around Los Angeles, finally dropping off Tex, Katie, and Leslie at the Labianca residence. I know that "the human side" is used to denote the lean towards goodness, softness, something of redeeming value. After the trials, Linda escaped the public eye by going back to New Hampshire. Went to high school with her in Milford, NH. In view of the unbelievably savage nature of these murders, and in view of the fact that hardly anything at all was taken from either the Tate or the LaBianca residences, and in view of all the other evidence in this case, including the statements of Manson, Watson, and Atkins that I have just referred to, a conclusion that these seven murders were perpetrated to help carry out some burglary or robbery would not seem to be consistent with the evidence in this case. Afterwhich, Manson dropped Linda, Sadie, and Clem off at a Venice Beach apartment complex. "Also as stated somewhere earlier, it didn't need some bogus story about a Lebanese actor to cover any Linda murder mania, not when 2 of the murderers had previously told police and other witnesses that she hadn't killed anyone.Given that no one was charged with even the attempted murder of or conspiracy to murder Saladin Nader, one might have to conclude you're chucking exhibits from that box of red herrings again Vincent Bugliosi said the only reason Linda went along on those two nights, is because she was the only one out of the group with a valid driver's license. Blacks and whites died in roughly the same proportion as percentages in the general population. There was little to tie Charlie to the crimes. AND isn't it about time (over 40 years) for the WHOLE truth and nothing but the TRUTH to leak out from the CRACKS in man's so-called civilization. Plus Tex's born-again act just comes across as to smarmy and sanctimonious. I think we agree again. St Circumstance saidand then left her child with the people who she knew committed themWhile this is generally taken as evidence of her total unfitness as a parent, for me it's more significant that she left her kid with a group whose child rearing methods she did not like than the fact that they had murdered. var part3 = "GW at Mansonblog dot com"; I think if it has any legs it makes it worse if they were stalking the house- can you say 'premeditation' or 'conspiracy'. Far more than the others that actually went to jail, fingers can be pointed at Linda about how not to conduct one's life. "Also as stated somewhere earlier, it didn't need some bogus story about a Lebanese actor to cover any Linda murder mania, not when 2 of the murderers had previously told police and other witnesses that she hadn't killed anyone.Given that no one was charged with even the attempted murder of or conspiracy to murder Saladin Nader, one might have to conclude you're chucking exhibits from that box of red herrings again.."The problem is Grim, Bugliosi painted a portrait of her as being different. All the excuses people make for themI personally know- as we all do I am sure- quite a few people whose parents were divorced when they were very young. I wonder if that cabinet they found Manson in was more importantyou know, you had to go through a wardrobe to get there. It certainly is not a euphemism for "cute innocent girl that never gets into trouble. Favorite Buglioli line: Manson loved children and animals. Manson Mythos saidThe problem is Grim, Bugliosi painted a portrait of her as being different. She droved straight to New Mexico, where her husband was living with another woman. HS crawled in 4th out of 6.Personally, I suspect that the ease and commonality with which Helter skelter is dismissed reflects a discomfort with the notion of God communicating, religion and the spiritual realm being taken seriously. var part3 = "Deb at Mansonblog dot com"; How perfect. The key impact of both crimes is that Conspiracy to Commit Murder and Felony Murder do not require the defendant to actually kill anyone or even be present when someone is murdered to be guilty of murder. I also don't think it let's Manson 'off the hook'.Then again if Van Houten really wanted to cut holes in her shirt for her elf wings maybe a bottomless pit with a secret magical realm, living there for 100 years and growing to 144,000 souls was part of it. She. There are definitely aspects of her being that stink worse than any shit a doctor or vet could extract from a creature of any description. But they also shine a light on the crimes themselves. Her testimony in the Watson trial {can be found at Cielodrive.com} is a real eye opener and fills in some details that hadn't been readily available. That, of course, rather obviously is directed at Charles Manson. I'm not sure how the neglect of Ruth's teen years inures her from criticism but not Linda. There is some fiddling and fuddling around the issue, all three men clarify that it was to be so but none of them ever push Susan or Leslie on it because the 2nd death squad didn't actually do anything. The Brits threw him out because he was accused of rape. var part2 = "mansonblog.com"; [This is very good lawyering. "She obviously neglected to mention that she got into Steven Parent's car. Credible doesn't always equal reliable and vice versa. She was once a member of Charles Manson's Family. Manson announced that it was time for Helter Skelter, the inevitable race war after which he and his followers would take control of America. It came up from a variety of sources, some of whom weren't even in the Family. Equally, the idea of Linda as the heroine of the hour is daft to me even though I think she did the right and good thing by testifying. I would have likely done the exact same thing. She's the better alternative to a man who says "mean things".I will say Donald Trump and Manson are very similar. If you read this post and think Linda is someone to pity and use positive phrases for, or defend- that is cool as the other side of the pillow. In case anyone is wondering, any reports of Manson's death are at this point to be considered exaggerated. When I put this thing together while the high school stuff was fun, for me the heart of the matter was the 'Odyssey' article. Whether Linda engaged in any violence or had the ability to do so isn't the big question here. But it's slippery ground to go with either, if you want to keep Charlie out of all this. After all, before August '69 was out, she had told at least 4 people {and possibly 6} about the murders or events surrounding them, but not LE. // -->,